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| Marty Bernard posted What do you think these are? In Santa Fe San Bernardino Shops, Duane Hall photo, August 1986. Howard Pincus: EMD cylinder liners and piston/rod assemblies. "Power packs", sans heads. Randy Volskay: Those diesels have cylinders like a Volkswagen. The liners will pull out, leaving the block, crank, etc. Kind of neat. As an aside, the first diesels, called "Amos" and "Andy", which pioneered on the Santa Fe Transcontinental run, had these parts changed during their run. The Engineer would shut down one engine, and the mechanic, who was part of the crew, would change out cylinder liners, pistons, etc, with the locomotive in motion. Talk about a job! The book, "Early Diesel Daze" is the reference, and was written by the son of one of those mechanics. A great read! Lou Basara: That's the reason 1st gen geeps and 2nd gen EMD's are still around. Brian Watt: It's also a reason for the EMD "cab design." The F units were designed to have persons inside the engine compartment for exactly this reason. Locomotives can fail enroute and nobody wants a late train. Back then, at least. |
Stephen Grief shared a post of a GE power assembly that had shot out of a diesel locomotive. Note the tracks at the top of the first photo. That gives you an idea of how far this assembly went. The piston went even further. It went through the roof of a house (6 and 2), down through the ceiling (3) and embedded itself in a wall (4).
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Curtiss Pool posted four of the above photos along with a RRpicturesArchives.net photo of the locomotive and the comment:
Trevor Baim Yeah definitely over 10, they showed us pictures of this when I was going through the machinist training in Georgia 10 years ago for ns.
Bill Shaver yes it happens, had it aboard ship... not pretty... causes other damage and fire... what a mess, oil everywhere.
Richard Rice looks like the piston in wall power assembly outside.
Adam LeLacheur I had a unit once throw a power assembly right through the top of a unit and into a bridge. All because someone decided to push in the governor button before calling the train.
Austin Partridge Rob Heidemann it could have blown a head gasket on that cylinder hydro locked it up and with 15 other cylinders all cranking against it the pressures would get way to high really fast.
Kevin Sem I lost one on a CP locomotive yrs ago. They found it in a field 25 yards from the track.
John Petit boingboing.net/2011/01/30/giant-diesel-loco-th.html
John Petit earliest report i find of this is dated 2007.
Shannon Sizemore I'd say it majority hydrolocked whilst running and kaboom!
Photos courtesy of Mark Vrettos.
This is Canadian National locomotive number 2699. It is a 212 ton, 6 axle machine powered by a 4400 hp V16 4 stroke Diesel.
The engine & train were passing the town of Independence, Louisiana when she threw a piston. These photos are the end result.
Trevor Baim Yeah definitely over 10, they showed us pictures of this when I was going through the machinist training in Georgia 10 years ago for ns.
Bill Shaver yes it happens, had it aboard ship... not pretty... causes other damage and fire... what a mess, oil everywhere.
Richard Rice looks like the piston in wall power assembly outside.
Adam LeLacheur I had a unit once throw a power assembly right through the top of a unit and into a bridge. All because someone decided to push in the governor button before calling the train.
Austin Partridge Rob Heidemann it could have blown a head gasket on that cylinder hydro locked it up and with 15 other cylinders all cranking against it the pressures would get way to high really fast.
Kevin Sem I lost one on a CP locomotive yrs ago. They found it in a field 25 yards from the track.
John Petit boingboing.net/2011/01/30/giant-diesel-loco-th.html
John Petit earliest report i find of this is dated 2007.
Shannon Sizemore I'd say it majority hydrolocked whilst running and kaboom!
This is what a power assembly looks like if it has not been shot across someone's backyard.
Smaller engines such as those in cars and trucks have a head that goes across the top of a cylinder bank. When a valve burned out in my Honda CRV, they had to uncover all of the cylinders just to fix one cylinder. Since it had close to 100,000 miles, I also had them change the timing belt. That repair cost $2000. Can you imagine removing a head from a V20 engine that would be about 20' long?
Engines are typically covered so that you can't see how they are built. But the screenshot below of an experimental engine shows that GM used power assemblies from the beginning of their development of a two-cycle engine for the locomotive application.
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| Richard Wineman commented on a share should look like this John Corum Richard Wineman Alco?? [Richard "liked" John's comment, so I assume this one is for an Alco engine. Even though Alco no longer makes locomotives, their engines are still made for other applications such as marine (boats).] |
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| EMD/Winton 201 [DeBruler] |
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| Screenshot |
This video lists the components of a power assembly: head and valves, liner, piston and rings, piston carrier and bearing, piston pin, thrust washer, snap ring, connecting rod, basket on fork rod assemblies.
Nosaj Werdel posted six photos with the comment: "You always just see the outside of the Loco, here is a bit of inside."
Robert Learmont posted fifteen photos with the comment:
Robert Learmont Where there’s a will, there’s a way - but there are a ton of specialty tools available for GEs, and most of them make the job a ton easier.
Curt Boyer GE's are a little harder to work on than EMD's you have the exhaust in the back and airbox fuel lines and water pipes in front. Fuel pump injector push rods on top. EMD don't have exhaust bolts or airbox to take off. In my experience you can do a EMD faster than GE.
Curt Boyer GE's are a little harder to work on than EMD's you have the exhaust in the back and airbox fuel lines and water pipes in front. Fuel pump injector push rods on top. EMD don't have exhaust bolts or airbox to take off. In my experience you can do a EMD faster than GE.
Richard Thiele Glad to see that assembly lifting device still in use. I was part of the design team and one of my classes used the prototype and confirmed the final design.
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| Illinois Railway Museum posted This photograph has made the rounds over the years, showing the size comparison of an EMD 567 piston on the left, a 12 oz can of Pepsi in the middle, and a Baldwin piston on the right. Baldwin 606 (inline 6) and 608 (inline 8) engines are 12-3/4" bore x 15-1/2" stroke.' Saw many of those when i worked at EMD though when i worked there they were mostly 710 and 645 engine pistons not many 567 left. Ed Elm I still see 710’s but no 645’s. now it’s T4. A whole different animal.And no more phosphating, tin plate which was introduced with the 710. That is a very cool picture. Now do exhaust valves. I think it’s funny how EMD used the per-cylinder displacement as the model number 567A-D / 645E&F / 710G. Then they came out with the H engine and they called it 265H, after the cylinder diameter in mm. It’s pretty much a flop. So, apparently repenting, its successor is called the 1010J. Cylinder dimensions are the same as the H and it’s still a metrically-dimensioned engine but they have returned to model designations based on displacement in cubic inches. |
A comment on this video explains the expected life of a power assembly:
The cause of the "blown power assembly" at the top of these notes was improper torquing of
the nuts that held the power assembly in the block. I read in one of the comments, which I now can't find, that they need 1,400 ft-lb of torque. I gave away my half-inch socket torque wrench, so I can't go look at its scale now. It was a beam wrench with an 18" handle similar to the one in this photo. But I think its scale topped out around 200 ft-lb. Given that spark plugs and lug nuts use a torque below 50 ft-lb, it was fine for my use.
BilgeDweller1 month agoI ran the engine room on an 8000 hp towboat powered by two 16-710's; we went 28,000 hours between overhauls. At about 14,000 hours, each engine got rebuilt cylinder heads and the piston thrust washers replaced. We ran the snot out of those things...To replace the cylinder head and piston thrust washers, I assume they just swap all of the power assemblies to get a boat or loco back into service and then do the replacement work in a shop so that the power assemblies can then be used in another boat or loco that needs repair.
The cause of the "blown power assembly" at the top of these notes was improper torquing of
the nuts that held the power assembly in the block. I read in one of the comments, which I now can't find, that they need 1,400 ft-lb of torque. I gave away my half-inch socket torque wrench, so I can't go look at its scale now. It was a beam wrench with an 18" handle similar to the one in this photo. But I think its scale topped out around 200 ft-lb. Given that spark plugs and lug nuts use a torque below 50 ft-lb, it was fine for my use.
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| EncMstr [CC BY-SA 3.0], via Wikimedia Commons |
To get 1,400 ft-lb, even with a very long wrench handle, would be hard. Then I discovered there are hydraulic torque wrenches that can be used to turn the nuts. (An EMD 710 engine needs 2,400 ft-lb of torque. [video])
Cedric Rummell posted four photos in "IF YOU WORK(ED) ON THE RAILROAD (railfans welcome)" with the comment:
I remember seeing someone comment a while back saying "EMD: Extreme Mechanical Destruction" and we had something in the shop the other day that made me think of that phrase.Behold! The first time I've ever seen with my own eyes a connecting rod manage to physically break in two.For context, the engineer reported the crankcase button and water button were popped and a large volume of oil all over the turbocharger end of the engine. When it came back to the shop, it was found that when the engine was turned over with the starters, the #8 piston wasn't moving. Lo and behold, it's because the rod was snapped.
Dominic Bennett: At least the power assembly stayed in the block. Those GEs can launch the PAs out of loco.
Elliott Moxley: I thought EMD stood for Eventual Mechanical Disaster. 😉 (GP-9s are great shortline power, though.)
Tom Walsh: EMD, every mechanics dream!
[There were quite a few comments observing that old EMDs were easier to maintain than old ALCOs.]
Shaun Henry: Jesus never known an EMD pack to snap a rod 😳
Cedric Rummell: Shaun Henry still managed to not destroy the block or the crank. I was impressed.
Jake Ley: I've actually seen this while i worked in the round house , engineer didnt open the cylinder cocks to blow them out ...well lets just say me being the mechanic.....i had..5 pistons , liners to change out ...
[Some comments talk about hydro-lock.]
Jeff Hauser: Had a rod come through the engine block on a RG tunnel motor. Only unit in our consist. The Oil button came out. We put a fusee between the side door and the oil button. It started and got us to home terminal.
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| Jolly Ottensmeier commented on Cedric's post Had a few of these, sometimes we fix the blocks if the crank ain’t hurt otherwise we swing engines. |
It is easy to envision how the power assembly chassis is blown out of the top of the locomotive if the nuts were not torqued properly. If they were too loose, they come off. If they were too tight, the bolts break. And the next power stroke blows the top, and sides, up and out of the locomotive. But a power stroke blows the piston down, not up. However, if the piston pin is broken, then at the end of the next compression stroke the piston would keep going up out of the hole already made by the power assembly.
Nosaj Werdel posted six photos with the comment: "You always just see the outside of the Loco, here is a bit of inside."
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| Nosaj Werdel commented on his post turbo time |
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| Nosaj Werdel commented on his post Idris Maza fork and blade connecting rods |
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| Josh Parrow commented on Nosaj's post |
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| Brendan Aris Forrest commented on Nosaj's post God I love my job, when stuff goes bad, it's always impressive. |
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| Lee Edw Ards commented on Nosaj's post |
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| Stewart Taylor commented on Nosaj's post |
Robert Learmont posted fifteen photos with the comment:
Just a little crack, no big deal. BNSF 5623 gets its L8 power assembly changed out after it cracked whileJC Walker Do the GE’s take a lot of specialty tools? Are they harder to work on then EMD’s? I like the lifting jig!
The unit was running. We’ll probably never know for sure what happened, but if it hydroed, the weak point is apparently the head. We stuck a straight rod down the oil hole in the connecting rod, and it was perfectly straight.
We often see GE FDL power assemblies with cracks like this in them, often with the unit still running as oil is seeping out the crack. Those cracks aren’t usually anywhere near this far around the whole assembly.
Galesburg, IL Diesel Shop - 1-22-2020
Robert Learmont Where there’s a will, there’s a way - but there are a ton of specialty tools available for GEs, and most of them make the job a ton easier.
Curt Boyer GE's are a little harder to work on than EMD's you have the exhaust in the back and airbox fuel lines and water pipes in front. Fuel pump injector push rods on top. EMD don't have exhaust bolts or airbox to take off. In my experience you can do a EMD faster than GE.
Curt Boyer GE's are a little harder to work on than EMD's you have the exhaust in the back and airbox fuel lines and water pipes in front. Fuel pump injector push rods on top. EMD don't have exhaust bolts or airbox to take off. In my experience you can do a EMD faster than GE.
Richard Thiele Glad to see that assembly lifting device still in use. I was part of the design team and one of my classes used the prototype and confirmed the final design.
Dennis DeBruler I want to add my thanks as well. I've learned that I'm not a railroad fan because I'm not that interested in shiny-sheet-metal-in-front-of-a-train photos. I guess I'm a railroadingfan.
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Would like to make my startup with huge thanks for this wholesome details. The power assemblies for diesel engines details. You really delivered huge useful and considerable points and technical explanation that was so so knowledgeable. I personally interested to learn about craftsman 1/4 torque wrench, but seriously I found so much interest diving the deep into the entire assemblies. Keep up the great job.
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