Tuesday, October 11, 2016

1912 90" Wheel Lathe, Track Geometry, and Jointed Rail

(Update: as I waited at a crossing for a train to pass by, I was reminded of another reason why wheels need to be turned --- flat spots. The sound is very distinctive and loud. Flat spots are created when a train goes into emergency stop and the brakes are applied so hard that the wheels do not turn at all. They just scrape (squeal) along the rail. However, it appears that they have figured out how to stop a train quickly without locking the wheels. The train did stop quickly enough that some of the automobiles in the autoracks got wrecked.)

Museums that preserve steam locomotives not only have to worry about preserving the locomotives, but also the machine tools that were developed to build/maintain those locomotives. I remember walking around the steam shop building at the Illinois Railway Museum when it used to be open to the public looking at the machine tools as well as the locomotive that was being overhauled. Strasburg Rail Road has preserved this 90" wheel lathe.

Screenshot from video Jeff Frost posted
Steam locomotive wheels being turned on a 90" wheel lathe built in 1912 for Leigh Coal and Navigation. The lathe now uses Mimik tracers (1960's technology) that was installed around 2009/2010. The wheel set is around 50" in diameter and is spinning around 13 rpm.

To change speeds you have to change out the gears. There are two sets of gears that can be physically installed; each set of gears can be installed to give two variations of speed; large gear on top and small gear on the bottom or small gear on top and large gear on the bottom. This gear change is near the motor.

The next set of gears is engaged with a lever. This gives a slower and faster speed for the gear combination near the motor.

The next set of gears chooses the drive to the the large ring gear on the face plate (90" in diameter of the face plate. You can see the teeth on the tailstock faceplate in this picture) or the smaller ring gear (about 50-60" in diameter, only on the head stock).

With all these gears there are 8 speeds for using the large ring gear and 8 speeds for using the smaller ring gear.

The large ring gear was used for the very slow speeds when using the tool steel tools (roughing tool, flange form tool, outside radius form tool and full tread (5.5"+ wide) form tool.

The small ring gear is what we use now for the higher speeds with using carbide insert tools; this would have been used before with small drivers (like 36" or less in diameter). The top speed for the small ring gear is around 18 rpm.

For turning the journals on the axles we use an auxiliary motor (by passes all of the straight cut gears) to spin the wheel set around 30-32 rpm
Jeff Frost commented on his posting
This was taken last Monday.The 90" diameter faceplate dwarfs the 49" wheels.
Update: This video shows that the reason the wheel surface has a taper is to handle curves in the track. Unlike a car, which has a differential, the rail wheels turn at the same rate. So they change the radius that is making contact with the rail to change the distance covered during each turn of the wheel.

Another wheel lathe:
Rich Behrends posted
THE DOUBLE-ENDED LATHE for turning wheels is an essential part of a locomotive workshop’s equipment. The wheels and crankshaft shown in this picture belong to a two-cylinder 2-6-0 locomotive under construction at the Belfast works of the LMS, for service in Northern Ireland. The wheels revolve with the slotted face-plates, and the turning tools are held in the massive slide rests on either side of the workman.
[Many English locomotives had the connecting rods inside the wheels. American locomotives always had the rods outside the wheels. Look at all of the shavings on the floor under the wheels.]
John Abbot posted
Denver Tramway Co machine shop...1910...
[You can see the building was built back when they used shafts and belts to power the machines because some of the belt pulleys are still hanging from the columns.]
John Abbot commented on the above posting
[Note this unit was still driven by a shaft and belt.]
John Abbott posted
John Abbott posted
wheel-lathe-work
Andy Pullen Actually, that's a quartering machine. It's used to machine the crankpins exactly 90 degrees apart to make a locomotive have no "dead spots" so it will always start. That machine actually looks like the shop in Irondale Alabama. The diesels on the right, top side of the photo give it away. I worked in that shop for 18 months.Bob Gaston Norris Steam Restoration Shop, Norris Yards, east of Ruffner Road, Irondale, Jefferson County, ALAndy Pullen That's it. The program was shut down in 1994. The auction was the first week of March of 1995. The locomotives went back to the museum. Roanoke for the 611 and 1218. 2716 went back to KRM.
[Even though it is not a wheel lathe, I include this picture because it shows the amount of big (expensive) machine tools that were needed to maintain steam locomotives.]
John Abbott posted
Andy Pullen That is a railroad wheel lathe. It's for turning the tires on both wheels at the same time. There was one in the Steam Locomotive shop in Irondale Alabama. Except, that machine was built by Niles.
John Abbott Niles - Bement - Pond Company ...they must have split up and went their own way ... as do most inventers with different ideas...
Robt Bernstein No, they didn't split up, they joined together. Niles in Ohio, Bement in Philadelphia, and Pond in New Jersey. Pratt and Whitney bought NBP later, I think.
[Note it is old enough to be driven by belt from a line shaft.]
John Abbott posted
1913-wheel-lathe-work
Andy Pullen Strasburg RR.George Atchison Looks like a narrow gauge axle.Casey Sowell I'm nearly positive this is standard gauge, likely for our locomotive #475 back when she was in for wheel work years ago. The base for the wheel lathe is set down in to the floor so it doesn't look nearly as large in this picture.Casey Sowell Worked next to this machine all day today (the last 4 weeks straight actually). Turns up to 90" drivers. Sometimes it will run for weeks on end when there is wheel work to be done and other times it sits idle for weeks. Makes a HELL of a racket when in operation.

John Abbott posted
1913-wheel-lathe-work
Andy Pullen I believe this is also Strasburg.
John Abbott posted
John Abbott posted
[A steam locomotive tire was a steel band that was heat shrunk around the hub and spokes. It could be replaced after it would be too thin because of multiple wheel lathe turnings.]
John Abbott posted
locomotive-wheel-lathe-machine-niles
[They must also be rebuilding something else.]
Dave Cavanaugh posted
David Williamson Strasburg Railroad...currently adding 12,000 square feet of NEW shop space for steam locomotive repairs!Dave Cavanaugh http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/index.shtml
Robert Phillips commented on the above posting
Found this in New Orleans... Belongs to LASTA(Louisiana Steam Train Association)... Mounted to a flatcar:):):)
Robert Phillips commented on the above posting
They loaded the "wheel lathe" and , ha, anything they wanted to lift with this rail crane:):):)
John Abbott posted
Craven Bros railway wheel lathe c1909.
David Daruszka posted
Checking the gauge on a driving wheel at the Pennsylvania Railroad. Given the gearing on the wheel, it belongs to an electric locomotive as opposed to a steam engine.
Ross Haygarth I always wear a straw boater when measuring the track of my new Choo-Choo 
David Daruszka Easiest way to identify a supervisor.
Jerome Clements They were, and still are, known as a "skimmer" on this side of the pond. They are still available here, as I'm sure they are in the UK.
Robert Livingston Quill drive, I am guessing 62" diameter, a standard for PRR ("The Standard RR of The World").
Mark Gulbrandsen All of the equipment in this shop is still in use. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYd9Pd58ksA
Screenshot (source link in case the video link is not permanent)
[The diameter of the tire is smaller than the wheel so they have to heat it to expand it to get it off.]
Steve OConnor posted two pictures with the comment: "1947 Locomotive Cyclopedia."
1

2
John Abbott posted
Fabrica brasil 1880
Ray Cook That's a gaggle of wheel lathes.
Jeff Turnfer posted four pictures with the comment: ''March 1957"

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2

3
4



A Metra video and article of how they "re-profile" their coach and engine wheels in place. They now using a milling head rather than a lathe tool.
Jim Morris How many times can a wheel be trued before replacement in necessary?
Metra Typically, a wheel can be re-profiled six to seven times before replacement is necessary.





Video of a GP10 having its "toes trimmed." (source)

Video of IRM's Putnam working since 50 years after it last ran.

Edward Wayne Bridges posted
GRINDING RAIL ON THE
CNRW DELAVAN ILLINOIS
The other aspect of maintaining the correct wheel/rail contact is grinding the rails. Just do a search on YouTube for "rail grinding train" to see plenty of videos of sparks flying. Some show how the grinding wheels turn off and raise one car at a time when approaching a crossing and then resume grinding on the other side of the crossing. I saved this picture because was surprised by how much "dust" was thrown into the air.

Modern diesel locomotives and rail cars also get their wheel sets trued up in a wheel lathe. The lathe is just not as impressive (big) as the old steam locomotive wheel lathes. My uncle, Douglas Weitzman, would talk about a locomotive needing its "toes trimmed." Another reason for wheel lathes is to remove flat spots on car wheels. An engineer does not want to do emergency braking because that locks the wheels and wears flat spots on the wheels. When you are standing at a crossing you can tell if a car with flat spots is going by because there is a loud, rapid thump-thump-thump as it goes by.

A geometry car is used to measure the profile of the rails to determine if the profile is bad enough that they need to be ground again.
Norfolk Southern Corp posted
Norfolk Southern train 905, the track geometry train, is shown northbound on the Bloomington District at Carlock, Illinois. The train ran from Bement to East Peoria, Illinois.

I'm sure it measures other things such as the straightness of the rail and helps determine what the maximum allowable speed is on a route. Notice how CSX has allowed their former-Rock Island route in Ottawa, IL form a "dimple" at each rail joint. And a "kink" at the crossing edge.

20150809 4040
Jointed rail need not be bad. But it does require proper maintenance. In the same town, Illinois Railway has maintained their jointed rail for higher speeds. The fact that jointed rail does require more maintenance is why many routes have replaced the jointed rail with Continuous Welded Rail.



Napolean, Defiance & Western has done enough work on their rails that it is now hard to find a train running on really bad track. But if you look for the predecessors, Maumee & Western and Maumee & Western, you can find engines rock back and forth as they go slowly down the track.

Screenview
Skip to the jungle part of this video. It has to be really scary going over bad track and not even being able to see where the bad spots are. Scott found another good rock and roll segment. If you keep watching they do a variant of a "flying switch" --- they stop then let the hopper coast through the turnout. They must be on a hill. It shows how good rolling bearings are because I don't see much of a hill.



No amount of rail grinding is going to fix this. That is why there is MoW equipment for regitation control, tie replacement, ballast dumping and tamping, and even rail replacement.

Jay Schebler posted
A little humor for the evening!
(new window) I wish I knew where on the form Maumee and Western the "tomato paste line" is. Bad track still exists as of Oct 18, 2017.


A video showing cars rocking back and forth on jointed rail with the comment: "The same Iowa Interstate CBBI w/ IAIS 708, 153, and ex Southern NS 5088 (HH GP38-2) at the first spot I caught it going underneath a wooden bridge near Putnam on the Peoria branch. Plenty of rocking with the jointed rail!!" Note the dark green C&NW and faded blue Rock hoppers. And has a NS high hood. Somewhere I read that hoppers will have harmonic rocking on jointed traffic at certain speeds. But I can't find that comment now. I believe the speed was 19-21 mph.

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