Saturday, September 30, 2017

IHB Michigan Avenue Yard and Tank Car Explosion

(see below for satellite information)

I learned about this yard while trying to determine where a propane tank blew up in a tank car cleaning facility.
Gabe Argenta commented on a posting
According to comments, it was the old UTLX 86 cleaning company and is now the Lakeshore Railcar and Tanker Services. Google marks it as United Rail Services.
Alan Craig commented on a posting
The above photo allowed me to determine the exact location of the explosion. Basically, the white building on the right no longer exists.
3D Satellite
Satellite
But the key comment in terms of learning railroad yards was: "Herman Lund It's off the south end of the IHB Michigan Ave yard." It is a large yard that is still a yard, as opposed to an intermodal facility. According to a B&OCT map, the tracks to the northeast are also part of this yard.
Satellite
Arturo Gross Flickr 1995 Photo

Arturo Gross Flickr 2017 Photo,  a unit train of steel coils. Arturo commented: "3528 is an ex BN unit and has an unusual flared radiator section." David Brown commented on Arturo's posting: "It’s because it’s an Ex LNG (Liquified Natural Gas) locomotive."

Arturo Gross Flickr 2001 Photo You can see two blast furnaces in the background.

Arturo Gross Flickr 2018 Photo of an IHB train that is still using GP38-2s.

Arturo Gross Flickr 2018 Photo of gensets pulling out a string of tank cars while a CP loco waits to enter the yard. (posting)
Jerry Jackson commented on Arturo's post
Man, the Harbor sure has changed.

Arturo Gross Flickr   "Indiana Harbor Belt NRE 3GS21C Genset 2163 leads a string of tank cars south out of Michigan Ave Yard in East Chicago IN, Dec 23 2018, while CP 9771 waits for a signal to head north into the yard."

Arturo Gross Flickr    "East Chicago IN used to be switcher territory, illustrated by the fine examples here. Elgin Joliet & Eastern SW1200 304 taking the CSX/EJ&E connector at Calumet Tower, while IHB NW2 8821 works at Michigan Avenue Yard, Nov 1993."

Arturo Gross Flickr "Fifteen years ago, NS 4813 an ex Conrail B40-8 leads a hot metal bottle train past Michigan Avenue Yard in East Chicago, headed for IHB's Lakefront Yard, Aug 6 2004."

Arturo Gross 2019 Flickr (source) "IHB GP40-2 4013 looks sharp in new black and orange paint leading a train out of Michigan Avenue Yard and across CSX/B&OCT rails at Calumet crossing, East Chicago IN, Sept 14 2019."
Steven W Panek Columbus Drive (US12) in the background.


CGW Austin (also Chicago Transfer and 48th Ave.) Yard

(Satellite)
The "Austin" name is because that is the town it was in. The "48th Ave." name is because that was the former name for Cicero Ave.
Mark Llanuza posted
Eastbound 192 at Austin Yard 1967 [photo collection Mark Llanuza]
Tom Casper That is the six pack I like
Ean Kahn-Treras yeah...holy crap. Passing right by the Central Ave station on the Forest Park branch. It doesn't have much time left in service either as it was abolished as a station stop in September of 73.

I'm gonna have to get you a photo of the CSX candy job [Ferrara Candy Company] passing this exact spot so you can see how little has actually changed here. Very neat, Mark

The caption on Mark's photo raised the question: where is Austin Yard?
The yard the CGW leased from the B&OCT was called the "Chicago Transfer Yard" and it lays just south of the Eisenhower Expressway between Cicero and Laramie Avenues in Chicago. The yard is lightly used today by the CSXT to serve a couple local industries. CGW freights normally operated directly into the B&OCT yard and the power layed over there, while the small amount of local traffic CGW handled was set out and switched at "the Transfer". [Trains]
It would have been the 48th Ave. Yd. on this map:
B&OCT Map
As usual, there were more, and longer, tracks in 1938. But I'm surprised how much vacant land was south of the yard. I'm used to seeing a lot of "brown land" in today's aerial views of railroad and industrial areas, but I'm not used to seeing what appears to be a lot of torn down industrial buildings in 1938.
1938 Aerial Photo from ILHAP
Zoomed into engine service facilities on the east end of the yard.
Update:
Dennis DeBruler posted a link of a CGW map with the comment:
Chicago Great Western shared access to downtown Chicago with Wisconsin Central. That shared route is now owned by B&OCT. CGW was abandoned by C&NW rather soon after they bought them. WC had the Schiller Park yard. Where was CGW's Chicagoland yard?
Ean Kahn-Treras Chicago Transfer Yard roughly on the Chicago/Cicero border. Laramie and Roosevelt/12th St.

Paul Turner So the line that servers Ferrara Pan alongside 290 was originally CGW?
Chris Schultz Paul Turner B&OCT.
Paul Turner So always B&OCT?
Dennis DeBruler Paul Turner No
The first owner of the completed shared route was the Chicago & Great Western. (The adjective "completed" means I skipped railroads that got charters but did not do much with them.) Note the ampersand. This was not the CGW. Back then (circa 1880s) CGW was using the name Minnesota & Northwestern. WC back then, in Illinois, was called Chicago & Wisconsin. (Many railroads in 1928 were constructed from shorter railroads that were chartered and built in the 19th Century.) I'll simplify the history by using the CGW and WC names in these notes. The C&GW used a temporary passenger station at Wells and Polk Streets in 1888.
Henry Villard became president of the Northern Pacific in 1881 and wanted to gain direct access to the Chicago market so he leased WC. Then he formed Chicago & Northern Pacific Railroad and used it to buy C&GW in 1889 along with some other shortlines that C&GW had acquired. He opened Grand Central Station in 1890 and convinced B&O to move their passenger trains from the IC tracks to this station in 1891. Pere Marquette also moved their trains to this station.
Mr. Villard not only entered the passenger market with a grand new station, he entered the freight market by consolidating many little railroads as the Chicago Terminal Transfer Railroad. Then his Chicago operations went bankrupt and B&O scooped them up in 1910 to form B&OCT.
The above was an attempt to summarize the info in the boct-history-4-11-1947 file in the Files section of this group.
(I want to thank Bob Lalich for providing me the copy of the B&OCT history file that I uploaded to Files.)

Andre Kristopans The line east of the Madison St grade crossing was B&OCT. Back in 1800s was owned by the Northern Pacific Ry (the one out west, who owned the Wisconsin Central at one time). B&O got a hold of it in the 1890s as part of a bankruptcy. CGW was a tenant. Freight yard was leased from B&OCT, roundhouse east of Cicero, also leased part of B&O roundhouse at Roosevelt Rd downtown. As an aside B&OCT was not absorbed by CSX, it still exists as an operating entity with employees, and in fact some of CSX's newer GE's are on paper owned by B&OCT!


Andre Kristopans Chicago Transfer Yard was owned by B&OCT. CGW rented certain tracks but not whole yard.
Dennis DeBruler Did CGW rent stalls in this roundhouse as well?
How did WC and CGW passenger trains use the B&OCT Lincoln Coach Yard. And the roundhouse in Robey Street Yard? Or did B&OCT handle the coaches like C&WI did for its owners?
Andre Kristopans Dennis DeBruler now I am not 100% certain, but it APPEARS SOO and WC simply backed their trains in and out of Grand Central. Likely had a couple of local crews to do it, but there is no indication B&OCT was involved. Will look into this some more though.
Andre Kristopans Dennis DeBruler here is some more info. It appears SOO owned from Madison St to Central Ave, B&OCT east of there. B&OCT had rights to Madison St however, and SOO had rights to Grand Central. CGW appears to be strictly a tenant. Also interestingly the Madison to Central stretch actually was owned by "Central Terminal", leased from day 1 to Minneapolis St Paul & Sault Ste Marie, subleased to Wisconsin Central (which itself was of course leased to MStP&SSM.)

You ever want to really get into the weeds as to who begat who and who owns who in the railroad world, take a look at the ICC Valuation Reports in the WW1 era. Much of it is very dry financial stuff, but they go into great detail as far as predecessors, subsidiaries, trackage leased or leased out. For instance, they detail the Pennsylvania Railroad (Lines East) and Pennylvania Company (Lines West) and their nearly 400 predecessors and subsidiaries in great detail.
Andre Kristopans Dennis DeBruler one additional info - CGW coach yard in 1920s was at "Empire Slip". Any ideas? Sounds like right at Grand Central maybe?
Dennis DeBruler Andre Kristopans I would assume that "Empire Slip" were some dedicated tracks in the Lincoln Street Coach Yard.
https://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/.../b-lincoln-yard...
I know that B&OCT used to have a commuter service. But I assume most of those tracks were built by Northern Pacific backed assets to support Grand Central Station.

Actually, I try hard to avoid the "who begat who" spider webs. (For example, that is why I used the term "Northern Pacific backed assets" above rather than a railroad name.) By default, I use the 1928 names in my notes. If I do dig deeper, I try to find the name that chartered the route and, if different, the name that built the route. My introduction to the complexity of the corporate history of railroad routes was Pennsy's Panhandle. In particular, the Chicago & Great Eastern that gave them access to Chicago. Not only did it have over 20 corporate names throughout its history, it used the C&GE name four times!
https://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/.../prrs-chicago...

So I generally ignore corporate ownership details. But I am interested in details as to how trains operated in 1928, which was probably the peak of "normal" railroading. (As opposed to WWII railroading.) Bill Molony has explained that C&WI owners would pull their passenger trains into Dearborn Station and then take their road engines back to their own yards. C&WI switchers would handle the movement of coaches between the station and their 47th Street Coach Yard. C&WI would then bill the owners for these movements. (Parts of 47th Street were also leased to Erie for their freight operations.) Now that I'm thinking about it, I don't know if the owner or C&WI switched the headend cars to the REA, etc.

Brian Watt Wasn't what became UPRR Wood St Yard formerly a CGW installation?
Dennis DeBruler commented on Brian's comment on Dennis' post
Wood St Yard was C&NW's Potato Yard. But B&OCT did have two yards east of it: Robey Street and Lincoln Street. But I don't know how WC(SOO), CGW, B&O and PM shared those facilities. The following map was posted by Henry Freeman in 2016. C&NW bought the B&OCT land to create its Global I intermodal yard. (Steam loco servicing and a coach yard was obsolete anyhow.)
Wood Street Yard: https://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/.../c-wood-street...

Dennis DeBruler CGW also had a local freight yard in the western suburbs called Ingalton.
https://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/.../chicago-great...
Ken Swiderski Dennis DeBruler Wasn't most of the switching handled by Chicago Transfer Yard? What was Ingalton used for, interchanging via the J and for industry work?
Dennis DeBruler Ken Swiderski Sorry about the delay, but I had to take some time to fix some errors I had in my General Mills notes. UP switched General Mills on the former CGW tracks until it closed in 2002.
https://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/.../general-mills...

This comment by nordique72 at April 6, 2011 11:16am in http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/190060.aspx?page=2 makes it sound like both CGW yards were industrial yards.

"The yard the CGW leased from the B&OCT was called the 'Chicago Transfer Yard' and it lays just south of the Eisenhower Expressway between Cicero and Laramie Avenues in Chicago. The yard is lightly used today by the CSXT to serve a couple local industries. CGW freights normally operated directly into the B&OCT yard and the power layed over there, while the small amount of local traffic CGW handled was set out and switched at 'the Transfer'."

I assume that Ingalton was a "helper" yard much like CB&Q's Eola Yard was back when Clyde (Cicero) handled freight or Santa Fe's GM Yard was back when Corwith handled freight. (Now Eola and GM Yards are the freight yards because the main yards have been converted to intermodal. In fact, Eola has been expanded.)

Andre Kristopans The line east of the Madison St grade crossing was B&OCT. Back in 1800s was owned by the Northern Pacific Ry (the one out west, who owned the Wisconsin Central at one time). B&O got a hold of it in the 1890s as part of a bankruptcy. CGW was a tenant. Freight yard was leased from B&OCT, roundhouse east of Cicero, also leased part of B&O roundhouse at Roosevelt Rd downtown. As an aside B&OCT was not absorbed by CSX, it still exists as an operating entity with employees, and in fact some of CSX's newer GE's are on paper owned by B&OCT!
Dennis DeBruler commented on Andre's comment
This excerpt from the boct-history-4-11-1947 provides a 1910 date for B&O organizing B&OCT to acquire the bankrupt assets that Northern Pacific help build or acquire. Back in 1890, Mr. Villard was still building his empire in the Chicago area.

I've read that B&OCT is independent of CSXT because of a clerical error that was made when the merger was executed. They forgot to include B&OCT in the merger.

Andre Kristopans Chicago Transfer Yard was owned by B&OCT. CGW rented certain tracks but not whole yard.
Dennis DeBruler Did CGW rent stalls in this roundhouse as well?

How did WC and CGW passenger trains use the B&OCT Lincoln Coach Yard. And the roundhouse in Robey Street Yard? Or did B&OCT handle the coaches like C&WI did for its owners?
Andre Kristopans Dennis DeBruler now I am not 100% certain, but it APPEARS SOO and WC simply backed their trains in and out of Grand Central. Likely had a couple of local crews to do it, but there is no indication B&OCT was involved. Will look into this some more though.
Andre Kristopans Dennis DeBruler here is some more info. It appears SOO owned from Madison St to Central Ave, B&OCT east of there. B&OCT had rights to Madison St however, and SOO had rights to Grand Central. CGW appears to be strictly a tenant. Also interestingly the Madison to Central stretch actually was owned by "Central Terminal", leased from day 1 to Minneapolis St Paul & Sault Ste Marie, subleased to Wisconsin Central (which itself was of course leased to MStP&SSM.)

You ever want to really get into the weeds as to who begat who and who owns who in the railroad world, take a look at the ICC Valuation Reports in the WW1 era. Much of it is very dry financial stuff, but they go into great detail as far as predecessors, subsidiaries, trackage leased or leased out. For instance, they detail the Pennsylvania Railroad (Lines East) and Pennylvania Company (Lines West) and their nearly 400 predecessors and subsidiaries in great detail.
Andre Kristopans Dennis DeBruler one additional info - CGW coach yard in 1920s was at "Empire Slip". Any ideas? Sounds like right at Grand Central maybe?
Dennis DeBruler Andre Kristopans I would assume that "Empire Slip" were some dedicated tracks in the Lincoln Street Coach Yard.
https://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/.../b-lincoln-yard...
I know that B&OCT used to have a commuter service. But I assume most of those tracks were built
 by Northern Pacific backed assets to support Grand Central Station.

Actually, I try hard to avoid the "who begat who" spider webs. (For example, that is why I used the term "Northern Pacific backed assets" above rather than a railroad name.) By default, I use the 1928 names in my notes. If I do dig deeper, I try to find the name that chartered the route and, if different, the name that built the route. My introduction to the complexity of the corporate history of railroad routes was Pennsy's Panhandle. In particular, the Chicago & Great Eastern that gave them access to Chicago. Not only did it have over 20 corporate names throughout its history, it used the C&GE name four times!
https://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/.../prrs-chicago...

So I generally ignore corporate ownership details. But I am interested in details as to how trains operated in 1928, which was probably the peak of "normal" railroading. (As opposed to WWII railroading.) Bill Molony has explained that C&WI owners would pull their passenger trains into Dearborn Station and then take their road engines back to their own yards. C&WI switchers would handle the movement of coaches between the station and their 47th Street Coach Yard. C&WI would then bill the owners for these movements. (Parts of 47th Street were also leased to Erie for their freight operations.) Now that I'm thinking about it, I don't know if the owner or C&WI switched the headend cars to the REA, etc.
Andre Kristopans Dennis DeBruler I have my doubts that Empire Slip was at Lincoln Yard. "Slip" would infer a waterway, which would infer near the river. Anything with that name on pre-straightening maps?
Bob Lalich commented
Empire Slip was located on the South Branch of the Chicago River at 12th St. Lincoln Ave Coach Yard replaced what must have been a very cramped Empire Slip yard. This map is from Railway Age 1909 and lists Empire Slip as the coach yard for B&O, CGW, and PM.
Andre Kristopans Bob Lalich very interesting that CNW already had two coach yards, California and Erie. I wonder if there was a roundhouse at California? Probably...
Jon Roma posted
Photographer K. C. Henkels snapped this image of a Chicago Great Western F unit on September 13, 1964. The slide mount states that this was taken in Chicago. However, I am not intimately familiar with their Chicago operations to suggest where this might have been.
Ray Weart This was indeed Chicago, Chicago Transfer Yard to be exact. The post 1959 CGW engine ramp was right by the Laramie Ave bridge toward the east end of the yard. The steam era round house burned to the ground prior to 1959. That was located right by the BRC embankment just east of Cicero Ave.

Evie N Bob Bruns posted
Chicago Great Western at Central Ave. yard in Chicago 1967
Ken Schmidt Forgive my ignorance, but where was the Great Weedy's yard (other than Central Ave)?
Richard Fiedler Ken Schmidt in Chicago that was it and was called Chicago Transfer.
Jeff Lewis Ken, the yard paralleled (actually, it still does parallel) the Eisenhower Expressway (I-290) between Harlem Ave. on the west and S.Central Ave on the east. It's part of the B&OCT, now CSX, and was also used by the Soo Line, now CN, linking from the north at the east end of the yard. The lines all merged at what is now the CTA blue line Harlem station.


Twin Bridges over the Wabash in Bluffton, IN

Even on the east side of Indiana, the Wabash River was wide enough that towns thought twice about building bridges across it. The multiple postcards made of the twin bridges is an indication of how important they were to the community. To this day, there is only one road bridge. I assume the railroad bridge is the Cloverleaf because it was originally narrow gauge. I'm guessing the Cloverleaf was later realigned to cross further downstream to share the Lake Erie & Western route through town. But the road bridge does not look like a predecessor to Main Street because of the sharp curve at the end. I would need to find Sanborn Maps to determine where these twin bridges crossed the Wabash. (Note to self: the album these photos are from contained several covered bridges.)

Photo from Kenneth Childers

Photo from Kenneth Childers
Photo from Kenneth Childers

Friday, September 29, 2017

NS/NKP Bridge over St. Marys River in Fort Wayne, IN

(Bridge Hunter, 3D SatelliteStreet View from Main, Street View from Sherman)

The satellite and street views would be of today's NS/N&W/NKP bridge. This 1889 bridge would not be able to hold the "big steam locomotives" that NKP ran in the 20th Century.
Great Memories and History of Fort Wayne, Indiana posted
St. Mary's River from west Main Street bridge, 1889, showing stone factory or mill with smokestack by iron bridge. ACPL
Matt Reibs River Greenway to the left, parking lot to the right in modern times.
[Since the NKP used the right-of-way of the Wabash and Erie Canal, there probably was an aqueduct here over the St. Marys River in the mid 1800s. (Update: Tom's History describes the mill and the covered aqueduct that proceeded this bridge.)]


Becky Osbun also posted
Rick Brandt The view is looking North. The trestle seems farther away, I think, because the original Main St bridge was farther South than today's bridge.
Randy Harter This is the Orff Mill, however, it had other names/owners over the years. The mill was on the east side of the St Mary’s, just south [actually, north] of the Main St bridge. The tiny triangular shaped park there on Main with the statue of the boys who swam in the aqueduct is sitting in the eponymous Orff Park. While this was originally an overshot mill driven by water diverted from the Wabash & Erie Canal (which closed in 1874) in this photo we can see the smokestack indicating it was has been converted to steam engine.

Update:
Kenneth Childers posted
Wells Street Bridge over the St. Mary's River [posted by Downtown Fort Wayne, facebook, 2017-07-30]
[A lot of comment agree with Kenneth that this is the Wells Street Bridge, but clearly, it is the NS/NKP Bridge. The bridge in the background is the Main Street Bridge because of the concrete arches.]

Photo from Kenneth Childers' posting
'Wabash and Erie Canal aqueduct at Fort Wayne' [Pictorial History of Fort Wayne Griswold 1917]
Fourth photo posted by David Coleman
Great Memories and History of Fort Wayne, Indiana posted
Photo of the painting by Ralph Dille of the Wabash and Erie Canal Aqueduct over the St. Mary's River at Fort Wayne. Aqueduct also known as the St. Mary's Aqueduct. 1882.

Chris Gleason posted
[Fortunately, the comments confirmed it was this NS/NKP bridge.]

Screenshot @ -0:14

Aban/C&NW/CGW crosses over C&NW

(Satellite)
Mark Llanuza posted
My before and after shot at Lombard IL 1980 and 2015 on tre CGW line
The trail builders decided to add curves and build brand new bridges to keep the bridges shorter of the 3-track C&NW and St. Charles Road.

This was out in the boonies in 1938. The current St. Charles Road has been built since then. The 1938 St. Charles Road is now St. Charles Place.
1939 Aerial Photo from ILHAP
Mark Llanuza posted
Its 1980 westbound crossing over The CNW
Update:
Mark Llanuza posted
Its 1980 with westbound crossing over the CNW main line in Lombard IL
Jack Morgan Did that curve around the bridge supprt on main three have any restriction at all? It likely isnt as sharp as it looks but I still cant see trains doing 60+ mph around it..?Debbie Boers I always wondered about little curve too. I rode few scoots back then and don't remember any slowing down for it. I believe track speed was 70 MPH (psgr) most everywhere on the Galena Divn.
Mark reposted his older photo as a standalone photo:
Mark Llanuza posted
Its 1979 eastbound commuter goes under the the former CGW line with westbound Frt coming at Lombard IL
Chris John posted
This is what was left of the CGW bridge over the C&NW in Lombard, Illinois in November, 1984.
Third photo posted by Marty Bernard
CGW 104C crossing CNW, Lombard, IL in January 1965. Rick Burn photo.
Sam Richards Eastbound or westbound?
Sam Richards So St. Charles Road overpass is under the eighth car back, approximately? I grew up in Elmhurst, and my mom drove often to my uncle's in Lombard, saw this bridge often, but never a train on it. Saw several, though, looking out back window of the Burger King about a half-mile east of here on St. Charles!
Rick Hess WB if St. Charles RD is passing below the 8th car. This would make it #143 which was called for Noon @ the Chicago Transfer. The other scheduled WB, #91, had a Midnight call time.

BSNF/Santa Fe Bridge over Spoon River near Dahinda, IL

(Bridge Hunter, no Historic Bridges, Satellite)

I would have ignored yet-another-railroad bridge until I noticed it was over the Spoon River. I remember Spoon River is where the KJRY had a truss bridge collapse. Fortunately, railroads are much more willing to maintain truss bridges than IDOT is. This is a pin-connected Parker truss that was built in 1910.

The track speed is high for such an old bridge.(new window)

Aerial views of four trains running over the trestle spanning the Spoon River at Dahinda, Illinois. This is the BNSF's Chillicothe subdivision. BNSF 7674 Wes.

Since it is the Chillocothe subdivision (former Santa Fe), I thought it would be just the usual collection of pigs, stacks, and racks. But there is a mixed freight train.
It looks like the three 4-bay NS hoppers are carrying tock (URL)
In some of his photos in Bridge Hunter, Steve uses his shoe to demonstrate how big some of the pins are.
URL


KJRY/TP&W Bridges over Spoon River near Siville, IL

(Old Bridge Hunter, New Bridge HunterSatellite of Old Truss, Satellite of Replacement Steel Girder)

Fmiser photo from Bridge Hunter, License: Creative Commons Attribution-Share-Alike (CC BY-SA)


Keokuk Junction Railway wrecked this bridge over Spoon River even though it had been inspected just a few months earlier. "Built 1890; collapsed Sept. 16, 2013; replaced with deck girder spans and reopened May 21, 2014." [Old Bridge Hunter]

"Built for the Missouri Pacific Colorado River crossing in Bay City, Texas; moved here in 2014" [New Bridge Hunter]

Four photos were posted on Facebook with the comment:
A train carrying corn syrup derailed just off of Route 95 on Seville Road, sending freight cars into the Spoon River yesterday 9-16-13. Here is an article link and a copy of their photos. http://www.cinewsnow.com/news/local/T-224005941.html. Here is another link about it. http://peoriastation.blogpeoria.com/2013/09/16/bridge-collapse-wrecks-train-near-seville/ [I see both links are now broke! :-( It seems I should ignore copyright considerations and copy the content so that it won't disappear. One of them mentioned that corn syrup was a pollutant as far as the fish was concerned. Some died.]
1

2

3

4
Pictures of trains crossing the bridge, including some cab units, were posted on Facebook. A photo of the Fs on the new Spoon River bridge from a different angle. A video of some trains in action including more F units.

Thursday, September 28, 2017

Indian Lake Spillway and Miami & Erie Canal Feeder

(Satellite, 52+ photos)

Jack Hines posted
4000 working at Indian Lake spillway, Russell's Point, Oh.
Keith Moore I ran there 40 ton grove there for four months Reese is the operator on the 4000 does a great job of it solid dude for sure
It appears the spillway designers tried to ensure that only a small stream of water would go over the spillway because a long dam feeds water under a rather short bridge. With only a small stream over the dam, I would not think it would be a drowning machine. I wonder why it is being replaced with a V-shaped dam design. It looks like it needs to be replaced because of spalling on the dam's surface. And it does appear that the flow can get rather heavy even with its long length. So if you are going to build a new dam anyhow, it might as well be of a modern design. They are also installing erosion mats on the downstream side.

Satellite
When I saw how big Indian Lake is, more than a couple of miles wide, I wondered if it was built for the Miami and Erie Canal. The following map confirms that Indian Lake was a summit lake for the canal. That is, it is a lake built near the summit of the canal to store water for the canal to supply water during dry seasons. There should have been a gate structure to let water out when the water level was below the spillway to feed the canal. They must have removed the gate structure since the canal feeder function is now obsolete.
ODNR