(Trainwatcher's Guide spelled this "Chicago, Terre Haute & South Eastern" with an abbreviation of CT&SE.)
Terre Haute Division Track Profile via Track Profiles
The Chicago, Terre Haute & Southeastern (CTH&SE) is the route in this map that goes south from Chicago Heights. It gained access to the Chicago market by connecting to the B&OCT in Faithhorn, IL and using trackage rights to North Harvey Junction. They also secured trackage rights on the IHB from North Harvey to Franklin Park. The purpose of the railroad was to bring coal from Southern Indiana to the Chicago area. Since it was built relatively late as far as railroad building was concerned, it skipped major towns so that it did not have to clutter up its tracks with passenger trains, prolonged reduced speed limits, and local freights.
Milwaukee's coal supply from its branch to Cherry and Oglesby was not enough to meet its needs during WWI. So in 1921 it leased the entire 298-mile CTH&SE for 999 years. (It bought it in 1948. [AbandonedRails])
In 1930 it acquired the CM&G/II&M that ran between Rockford and Delmar and connected with its mainline in Kirkland. Note only did this allow them to cancel their trackage rights on B&OCT and IHB, I'm sure this route was much less congested.
Bill posted the map again
The Chicago, Terre Haute & Southeastern (CTH&SE) is the route in this map that goes south from Chicago Heights. It gained access to the Chicago market by connecting to the B&OCT in Faithhorn, IL and using trackage rights to North Harvey Junction. They also secured trackage rights on the IHB from North Harvey to Franklin Park. The purpose of the railroad was to bring coal from Southern Indiana to the Chicago area. Since it was built relatively late as far as railroad building was concerned, it skipped major towns so that it did not have to clutter up its tracks with passenger trains, prolonged reduced speed limits, and local freights.
Milwaukee's coal supply from its branch to Cherry and Oglesby was not enough to meet its needs during WWI. So in 1921 it leased the entire 298-mile CTH&SE for 999 years. (It bought it in 1948. [AbandonedRails])
In 1930 it acquired the CM&G/II&M that ran between Rockford and Delmar and connected with its mainline in Kirkland. Note only did this allow them to cancel their trackage rights on B&OCT and IHB, I'm sure this route was much less congested.
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Bill Molony posted, cropped
1944 Bill posted again Stuart B. Slaymaker Odd that Faithhorn wasn't shown. BIG frame Milwaukee Road depot, roundhouse, turntable, train order station. Fair sized yard. In the 1944 employees timetable, it had every letter in the alphabet, next the the name. Wish I still had that ETT!!! Stuart Pearson THANKS FOR SHARING BILL! I once saw a Milwaukee Road 2-8-2 Mikado taking on Coal just South of the Washington St. Crossing of "The J" in Joliet. I was in a Car, and without my Camera so NO PIX~~DARNIT! |
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| Bill Molony posted a 1920 Map The Chicago, Terre Haute & Southeastern Railway Company of Illinois was Incorporated on November 30, 1910. The principal purpose of the CTH&SE was to bring southern Indiana coal to the Chicago area. The CTH&SE was leased on June 15, 1921 to the Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific Railroad for 999 years. The lease, however, lasted for only 27 years; The Milwaukee Road completely absorbed the CTH&SE in 1948. The Milwaukee's former CTH&SE line between Chicago Heights and Terre Haute was abandoned in 1979. This original CTH&SE map is dated 1920. Bill Molony posted This map of the Chicago, Terre Haute & Southeastern Railway is dated 1920. The Chicago, Terre Haute & Southeastern Railway Company of Illinois was chartered on November 30th, 1910 and was conveyed to the Chicago, Terre Haute & Southeastern Railway Company on December 22nd, 1910. It was leased June 15th, 1921 (effective July 1st, 1921) for 999 years to the Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul Railroad (the Milwaukee Road). The Milwaukee Road purchased and absorbed the road in 1948. From the Blackhawk collection. Alan Buck: Westport IN was the easternmost point of any western US railroad. Good piece of trivia!Tony Creamer: Alan Buck It even beat out Pensacola, FL on the BN, which is kind of wild. Bill Edrington: Alan Buck - Any idea whether Westport was the end of the line intentionally, or whether they just got that far and the money ran out? Other than making a connection with the Big Four, I never could understand...why Westport? Tony Creamer: Bill Edrington I think the original idea was to make money bringing southern Indiana and southern Illinois coal into Chicago, and then someone thought maybe they could make more money hauling that coal to Cincinnati as well. They were always struggling, so yeah, they probably ran out of money--again. MILW buying them was an 11th hour save that was a pleasant surprise to their creditors, who all expected to lose everything they had invested in the CTH&SE. Grayson Warbritton: Bill Edrington per Ghost Railroads of Indiana the line was originally the Evansville and Richmond to build a route between Elnora and Richmond IN. The E&R was sold to John Walsh who incorporated the Southern Indiana Railroad but was never continued as the Southern Indiana completed their route to Terre Haute. Eventually the Southern Indiana became a part of the Chicago, Terre Haute, & Southeastern which was eventually made part of the Milwaukee Road. The Westport branch would thus languish as a planned through route but died as a stubbed branch of a plan never fulfilled. Bill Edrington: Grayson Warbritton - Thank you! John Walsh was also the guiding force behind the Illinois Southern Railroad, which eventually became part of the Missouri-Illinois. He planned to build an extension of that line from Salem, IL to Terre Haute, and that never saw the light of day either. Evansville to Richmond is interesting, as it would have tied into the Panhandle (PRR) at Richmond, and the PRR never did serve Evansville.
Bill posted again.
Robert Payne Following the track North of the coal fields on the Illinois side on Google maps, Many, if not all, of the towns along the line are completely gone. My great grandfather was a dispatcher for the Illinois Central in Rossville, IL, North of Danville, IL. I tried to find the towns KNOWLES and JOHANNOTT, No signs of them on Google Maps, but the track is still there and is being used. Thanks for sharing.Bill Molony Those designated locations along the CTH&SE in Illinois were not actual towns or municipalities; most of them were just grain elevators or other railroad clients. Christian Goepel posted with lower resolution but better exposure BRHS posted The Chicago, Terre Haute & South Eastern Railway Company was completed in 1907 as a means of reaching the coalfields of southern Indiana. On July 1st, 1923, the Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific Railway Company (the Milwaukee Road) leased the entire lines of the CTH&SE Railway Company, about 298 miles between Chicago Heights, Illinois and Westport, Indiana, and on the same date secured trackage rights from the Indiana Harbor Belt Railroad from Franklin Park to north Harvey; It also uses trackage rights over the Baltimore & Ohio Chicago Terminal Railroad from North Harvey to a point south of Chicago heights under an agreement on August 1st, 1913. The Milwaukee Road completely absorbed the CTH&SE Railway Company.in 1948. Alan Follett The CTH&SE was probably the only line-haul railroad serving Chicago that never operated passenger service into the city. They did run a limited amount of local passenger service at the south end of the line, out of Terre Haute, which lasted well into the Milwaukee Road era. And I know of at least one occasion in the 1960's on which a C&EI Hummingbird detoured over the line. Mark Fuller Alan Follett if no passenger service, what do the white dots and circles represent along the route in red? Local freight pickup? Alan Follett Yes, I'm sure CTH&SE had freight service, and probably physical stations, at these points. Bill Edrington Three of the so-called “granger” roads bought and/or built lines that connected their systems to the coalfields of the Illinois Basin, which includes the southern Indiana mines. In addition to the Milwaukee’s acquisition of the CTH&SE, there was CNW’s Southern Illinois Division, which ran from Nelson, IL via Peoria and South Pekin to CNW’s own mines around Benld, IL (and eventually linked up with the Litchfield & Madison to reach St. Louis); as well as the CB&Q’s Beardstown Division, which served a number of mines south of Centralia and fed coal to the Q system as well as to its parents GN and NP. Dennis DeBruler The C&NW branch that still goes from DeKalb to Troy Grove used to go all the way to some coal mines on the east side of Spring Valley. John Iwanski Milwaukee Road’s (and later the Soo Line’s) Latta subdivision. http://sooline.railfan.net/photos/santucci/latta2.html |
Bill posted the map again
Jeff Toppen: Is the Chicago and eastern Illinois the same tracks?
Bill Molony: No. The Chicago, Danville & Vincennes Railroad was completed in 1870 and provided direct service between Chicago, Danville, Evansville and St. Louis. In 1881, the Chicago, Danville & Vincennes was consolidated with two other railroads to form the Chicago and Eastern Illinois. The Chicago, Terre Haute & Southeastern was built in 1917, east of and parallel to the C&EI.
Alan Follett: On at least one occasion in the Sixties, the northbound C&El Humming Bird (probably by then combined with the Georgian) detoured over this line. Some railfan friends returning from New Orleans scored unexpected rare mileage that day.
Jim Gordillo: All tracks in the southern end have been pulled east of Crane Naval Base, which is still served by INRD as far as I know. The 13 mile stretch from Bedford to Williams is a rail trail.
Richard Koenig posted:
Hello knowledgeable group: does anyone know if trains on the Southeastern were called north-south or east-west? Considering the general thrust of the CMStP&P, I would not be surprised if it's the latter, despite it feeling off-base within the state of Indiana.
North and south
Extra 201 and extra 204
This map shows both access routes abandoned because Milwaukee switched to using trackage rights on the NYC's Kankakee Belt between Danville, IL and Northwest Indiana in 1979. [AbandonedRails] You will sometimes see reference to Milwaukee using the Egyptian Line north of Danville. The Egyptian Line is a superset of the Kankakee Belt and includes the Big Four route that went from Danville to Cairo, IL. So both terms are reasonable for the segment north of Danville.
Some history of the route before Milwaukee bought it. The November, 1910, incorporation of CTH&SE took over the properties of the Southern Indiana and the Chicago Southern, which were in the hands of receivers and sold to the new company under foreclosure. 90% of the freight on this line was coal. [AbandonedRails] In OldMilwaukeeRoad (search for Terre) we learn that the Milwaukee Road had trouble getting coal from distant mines during World War I. That is why President Byram leased the CTH&SE --- to ensure reliable access to coal fields. Note that the 1920 map also shows the coal fields that this railroad accessed.
Milwaukee itself was not the only market for coal in northern Illinois. ComEd had over a handful of coal-burning power plants in Chicago alone. But I don't know how many of them were served by Milwaukee. There were also a lot of retail coal companies because homes and businesses were still heated with coal. Below are two views of coal silos next to Milwaukee's Chicago & Evanston Branch that ran next to Wrigley Field.
This railroad is the first major omission I have encountered in my 1928 Railroad Atlas. It does not have the route from Chicago Heights to Terre Haute. It does have the route from Terre Haute to Westport. But not any of the branches off that route. Note that the railroad went through Bedford, IN. I wonder if this railroad also served some of the limestone/dolostone business in the area.
The thick red lines show what was still operated by the Canadian Pacific when they took control of the SOO in 1990, which had bought parts of the Milwaukee Road in 1985. Note CP included the part of CTH&SE that was not abandoned in 1979. The 26-mile eastern segment from Seymour to Westport had already been abandoned in 1961 [AbandonedRails]
But when I accessed CP's interactive map in September, 2015, that part no longer appears on the map. In Bridge Hunters, I learned that CP sold it to Indiana Rail Road (INRD) in 2006. According to a comment by Brian Gray in Abandoned Rails, the segment from Bedford west to Crane Naval Depot was gone by 2012. A comment by Renfe Mikado indicates "The line from Walz (Danville, Illinois) north to Hooper Illinois (a grain elevator east of Beaverville, Illinois) is still in operation as part of the Kankakee, Beaverville and Southern. North of Hooper it is entirely gone all the way up to Thornton. From Danville south, it is entirely gone all the way through what was Hulman Street Yard in Terre Haute."
Comments concerning when Milwaukee used the Egyptian Line to Danville. The answer seems to be 1979-89. One of the comments explains the INRD purchase from CP:
It remains "Out Of Service" due to the language in the trackage rights agreement with the Milwaukee Road, which the Canadian Pacific retains....the NS does not have to maintain it, however, the line must remain available in case there would be a use for it again by the CP per the agreement.
INRD got trackage rights over CSX/C&EI from Terre Haute to Chicago.
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| Bill Molony posted This map shows the route of the abandoned MILW-CTH&SE route, with stops at Faithorn, Claus and Judy in Will County and Polk, Brock, Puder, Wilkstrom, Delmar Junction and Ahern in Kankakee County. None of these places were municipalities; they were just the names that the railroad gave to those locations. |
Some history of the route before Milwaukee bought it. The November, 1910, incorporation of CTH&SE took over the properties of the Southern Indiana and the Chicago Southern, which were in the hands of receivers and sold to the new company under foreclosure. 90% of the freight on this line was coal. [AbandonedRails] In OldMilwaukeeRoad (search for Terre) we learn that the Milwaukee Road had trouble getting coal from distant mines during World War I. That is why President Byram leased the CTH&SE --- to ensure reliable access to coal fields. Note that the 1920 map also shows the coal fields that this railroad accessed.
Milwaukee itself was not the only market for coal in northern Illinois. ComEd had over a handful of coal-burning power plants in Chicago alone. But I don't know how many of them were served by Milwaukee. There were also a lot of retail coal companies because homes and businesses were still heated with coal. Below are two views of coal silos next to Milwaukee's Chicago & Evanston Branch that ran next to Wrigley Field.
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| DeBruler |
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| DeBruler |
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| Milwaukee Road Map from Wikipedia |
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| CP Interactive Map |
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| Randy Allard posted Milwaukee Road caboose bringing up the rear of a southern Indiana bound freight crossing 165th street in Hammond, Indiana. [This would be after 1979 when they abandoned their own route and used NYC's "Kankakee Belt" to get to Danville, IL.] |
Comments concerning when Milwaukee used the Egyptian Line to Danville. The answer seems to be 1979-89. One of the comments explains the INRD purchase from CP:
Chris Thompson The Milwaukee is in service from Fayette (terre haute) to Crane, IN, a distance of 70.1 miles. Everything from Crane to Bedford was removed by Indiana Rail Road in summer of 2010.Eric Berg
The old yard, diamond crossing, station, 1973-built direct connection to the L&N (ex-Monon) is all still in place in Bedford, but inactive and in some places, impassible, as the local scrapyard covered the track to expand their facility. This scrapyard was the last remaining customer in the area.
After CP sold the Latta sub to INRD in 2006, there was some legacy traffic, but most of that dried up by late 2008. There is still freight from the CP that reaches Louisville, brokered by Consolidated Grain & Barge Co. and it routes CP-Chicago-INRD-Indianapolis-LIRC-Louisville to reach its destination.
It remains "Out Of Service" due to the language in the trackage rights agreement with the Milwaukee Road, which the Canadian Pacific retains....the NS does not have to maintain it, however, the line must remain available in case there would be a use for it again by the CP per the agreement.INRD got trackage rights over CSX/C&EI from Terre Haute to Chicago.
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| James Boudraux posted |
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| Kenneth Jackson posted Map showing the "Southeastern". Original is hanging in Spring Hill Tower. Morgan Davis The Madison line is an interest of mine. Kenneth Jackson On my bucket list to see the Madison Railroad. Specifically the grade. [I can't figure out where the Madison line was.] |
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| safe_image for The Milwaukee Road in Southern Indiana |
According to draft registration cards my Grandfather, George C. Huffman was an engineer for the CTH&SE RR in 1918 and the "Chi Mil St Paul RR" in 1942.
ReplyDeleteYour grandfather George Huffman shows on my 1926 seniority roster as number 51, with an engineers date of November 9th, 1913.
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